Speakers
Host: Shireen Garrison & Steve Brown
Guests: Cathy Roberson & Brandon Hulse
Shireen Garrison – 00:07
Welcome to Smart Supply Chain, a podcast for supply chain professionals who think and work smarter. I’m your host. Shireen Garrison, usually I’m here with my sister in supply chain, Sarah Garrison, but today I have a special hosting guest with me. Steve Brown is here today. He works with me in the strategic client space. Hi Steve.
Steve Brown – 00:26
Hi Shireen, thanks for having me today.
Shireen Garrison – 00:26
Today we’re going to talk about all things freight and logistics and all the things that are changing in the world. But Joining us today is Cathy Roberson. She’s the founder and head analyst at Logistics Trends and Insights, where she’s led customized research and consulting in the logistics industry. Cathy has more than 20 years of experience in the logistics market, and that’s including more than a decade at UPS supply chain. She serves as a research manager in the Reverse Logistics Association, and she also contributes as a research analyst with the Journal of Commerce. Cathy publishes a weekly freight forward newsletter on LinkedIn, which has more than 20,000 subscribers, I’ve discovered. So welcome, Cathy. You’re very busy these days.
Cathy Roberson – 01:11
Thank you so much for inviting me.
Shireen Garrison – 01:14
You’re welcome. We’re really excited to have you here. I have read a lot of this stuff that you’ve been putting out recently, and you are a busy person, there’s a lot happening. I hope that you’re ready to share some of it with us, to keep it all together, because there’s so many things going on in the world today.
Cathy Roberson – 01:31
I’ll try, like there, there are a lot of things going on, and it’s really hard to keep tabs on everything.
Shireen Garrison – 01:40
You’re doing a good job. You’ve got it all in all of your different posts and sub stacks and LinkedIn and all the things that you’ve got going on. So we want to hear about it. You’re keeping yourself busy. For sure, so many things are shifting and changing on a nearly daily basis. But what are you hearing in relation to tariffs and trade wars, and how do you think that’s impacting, in general, the global trade and freight industry.
Cathy Roberson – 02:03
That’s all that everyone wants to talk about, is the tariff situation. And what I’m hearing there’s more questions than there are answers. But I mean, for the most part, retailers in particular, have been moving their sourcing, their manufacturing, away from China. And I think a lot of these tariffs are really primarily targeted to the imbalance of trade between the US and China, more so than other countries. And back during the pre pandemic, days when Trump was in office, the first time around, a lot of these retailers learned then, when he started implementing tariffs, that we needed to diversify sourcing locations. So most of them did, and they did a really good job of it. So now that we’re in Trump 2.0 I guess you can call it, you know, a lot of them have diversified away, but they’ve also started generating more revenue from other countries as well. And I think that’s it’s interesting. I was talking to a journalist this morning, and we both agree with the earnings reports coming out for first quarter, that we’re going to hear more retailers emphasize how they are generating more revenue from other countries and not just the United States. I mean, Levi Strauss, for example, made a special note of saying that over 60% of their total revenue is now outside of the US, which was a big surprise to me.
Shireen Garrison – 03:36
That is surprising.
Cathy Roberson – 03:38
Yeah, yeah. So I think he’s seen a lot of this diversification, but also a lot of still unknown.
Shireen Garrison – 03:45
Are you seeing changes that people are doing more nearshoring, or are you seeing more that they’re going to other countries outside of China?
Cathy Roberson – 03:53
From my perspective, I’m seeing more going to other countries instead of that nearshoring. There have been a lot of recent announcements of various companies announcing that they were going to open up a new manufacturing facility here in the US, but they’re few and far between. Still, right now, people talk about the death of global trade, that this is it. I think it’s just a reimagination of global trade. I think it, we still have it. It’s not going anywhere. It’s just gonna look a little different.
Steve Brown – 04:25
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that Cathy that you know based on your experience and insight, you know, when you think about this current scenario, this current tariff situation that we’re in based on what you’ve seen in the past, is it at a level that you’ve never seen before. Are we seeing, you know, this in certain areas of panic, is it truly kind of redefining that whole space, or is it just part of a, kind of a natural evolution based on your experience? Are you, you know, are you seeing this whole disruption occur that is really, in some ways transforming the industry?
Cathy Roberson – 04:59
I think, if you look back, yeah, I’ve been into space for over 20 years. The supply chain market has been, it’s been a roller coaster ride throughout the entire time. Back in the early 2000s I think that’s when you started seeing a lot of outsourcing of supply chains, moving more and more towards using a Chinese manufacturers and such. And so that was quite disruptive for supply chains at that time to actually outsource. And then you had the big financial crisis in 2008, 2009 where trade almost was at a standstill. So there was another crisis. You we’ve had natural disasters, you know, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, the introduction of SaaS products, cloud solutions, that really brought forth a lot of changes in technology and how supply chains embrace technology and such. And then COVID, to me, COVID was such a pivotal moment, to me that was probably the most disruptive out of everything that I’ve seen been a part of, or what have you, over the past 20 years. That’s where it suddenly people began to realize, wait a minute, all of our dressing gowns or rubber gloves are being sourced from Asia. Had no idea. Had no idea most of and you know, most consumers were like, wait a minute, all of our medication coming in from India or Mexico primarily. Why aren’t we producing these here in the States? And it’s been in particularly more disruptive over the past five years, because we also had the longshoreman strikes, potential strike. Let me back up, you know, on the East Coast ports, the contract negotiations, and also on the West Coast ports, we saw that we almost came close to strikes, and now we have this going on, the tariffs, where we see a lot of front loading that’s occurred ahead of these tariffs and such. So I think it’s just, I hate to call it an as is, but it’s another disruption in supply chains.
Steve Brown – 07:12
Yeah, it almost just trails, you know, what’s going on globally, when you just click at the uncertainty and the constant shifts and in technology and other, you know, areas. It just, it just kind of falls in line with that. But, yeah.
Shireen Garrison – 07:26
What kind of other tools do you think are seeing a big uptick in terms of the logistics space? What kind of things are people using for scenario planning or other solutions that maybe you haven’t seen in the past?
Cathy Roberson – 07:40
Oh, that’s a good question, and one that I’m not too sure I can answer, but I can tell you, I think, from a parcel perspective, and and, you know, a lot of people don’t really give that whole last mile, that whole parcel, part of the supply chain, the credit that I think should be given to because our friends at FedEx and UPS have done a phenomenal job of moving packages in highly disruptive periods, but also should give credit to those parcel startups that have emerged during and after COVID. A lot of these startups, they are tech, they are platform based, and I think one of the greatest benefits that they offer to shippers is the idea of being able to really manage that last mile on their own. Instead of handing over a pallet of little brown packages to our friends at UPS, FedEx, they can manage where these are going themselves, kind of like a TMS, a transportation management system, because that’s exactly what it is. They can determine the service level. They can determine who’s going to make those deliveries. Is it going to be a FedEx, or is it going to be an On Track or the post office? So I think that’s been one of the coolest things for me to see, and the fact that there are more competitors in that parcel space than just UPS, FedEx, and the post office. People keep telling me about the duopoly. There’s always been this duopoly between FedEx and UPS. Well, that duopoly died several years ago with all these players coming into the market.
Shireen Garrison – 09:23
I was gonna say, do all those smaller players, do you think that they’re pushing things forward faster? I mean, the UPS is and the FedExes of the world. I mean, just amazing amount of things that have happened over the last, you know, 20 years. But I do see that these smaller companies are moving a bit faster, maybe pushing the big companies to try to figure out how to compete.
Cathy Roberson – 09:45
I think so. I think the larger players, the FedExes and the UPSs, are taking note of these smaller players, and they’re trying to catch up. They’re investing a lot into technology, automating those facilities. Fees to make them faster and such. So I think these, these startups and such, really have a nice place in the last mile and constantly are telling shippers, you know, you can’t afford to depend on just one last mile carrier. You’ve got to have several in your basket for that, just in case. Because if you remember, a couple of years ago, UPS almost faced a strike. Their drivers are part of the teamsters union, and the contract it came down to the wire to get that finally agreed to and signed.
Steve Brown – 10:36
Yeah, that’s interesting point. You know, Kathy, when you were when we’re talking about this last mile, and the number of different people and companies that have kind of gotten into this space, both on the forward logistics and reverse logistics side of the business, and you think about what happens is they develop these niches, they’ll grow to a certain level, and then they’ll get acquired by one of the larger companies and organizations. What have you seen from that perspective, from a trend perspective? Have you seen that to start to get more traction? You know, because we saw it in the 2000s and the mid 2000s as companies, you know, as they, as they started to grow their certain niche, in those different verticals and spaces that these larger companies, such as the UPSs and the FedExes and so would come in and acquire them. And are you continuing to see that, and you see that continuing in the future?
Cathy Roberson – 11:22
Oh, definitely. There’s a lot of these folks that have founded these startups are building them too, in hopes of being acquired, for sure. I mean, you’ve seen like Target, the retailer, Target acquiring Ship. So they now own their own parcel management tool and delivery service UPS acquired a roadie a couple years ago. So you know, for a faster delivery service, something that they weren’t able to do on a profitable level. So yeah, and you see that across the supply chain, for sure, you see a number of reverse logistics startups being acquired, particularly over the past couple of years, just simply to close that supply chain loop, as more and more companies are realizing, wait a minute, we need to get a better handle on these returns, because they do cost money, and so many companies don’t realize how much returns are costing them, and so they’re buying a lot of these startups again, UPS acquired Happy Returns a couple of years ago. It’s a beautiful platform for shippers to use and to manage their returns, as well as customers like you and and me. So you’re gonna, you’re gonna keep seeing that.
Shireen Garrison – 12:41
I think a lot of companies didn’t want to deal with returns for the longest time. Like, I mean, I remember buying things…
Cathy Roberson – 12:48
Deep, dark secret, you know, everybody just…
Shireen Garrison – 12:51
Yeah, and then you had to, like, physically bring something back to the store if you bought it. And, I mean, just such a huge hassle to do returns. But now it’s super simple. You literally just get a something to print out at home and go drop it off somewhere. And it’s very simple to make return We’re going to take a quick break and be back shortly.
Cathy Roberson – 13:06
Exactly. Or you could have have them come pick it up at your front door if you wanted to. And the thing is, also, companies are beginning to realize they need to understand why people are returning stuff. So that’s where you’re beginning to see some of the AI play in I know, with the Reverse Logistics Association, every year we do a startup contest focused on reverse logistics startups. And one of our winners, a couple of years ago, they actually had a platform, and it was an AI driven platform that allows folks to better understand their returns data and to understand why people are returning what they’re returning, and so they can use that datato either, you know, make improvements on products or to position these items a little better.
Speaker 1 – 13:14
This really has been an insightful discussion. So far with Cathy, been a lot of great and interesting topics. I know that at ALOM, we’ve established this Edge Team to help with some of these insights that our customers have around the questions and concerns around tariffs and other things. And I know you’re a part of that team as well Shireen.
Shireen Garrison – 14:25
That’s right. There is a group of us that are on this team that we’re calling the Edge Team. We’ve got some resources that are tracking all the changes so that we can keep up to date on basically all the latest and greatest information, because it really does feel like things are changing on a daily basis. So our team is reviewing our client setups and also discussing with them if there’s things that we need to do to help them mitigate extra cost or identify risks that we can provide some solutions to. So that’s what we’re doing on our side. There’s a few people on the team that weren’t able to join us today, but I did invite Brandon Hulse to join us and give us few updates on what he’s kind of driving. Brandon is our head of logistics, and he’s here today. So hey, Brandon, how’s it going?
Brandon Hulse – 15:08
Hi Shireen, great. Thanks.
Shireen Garrison – 15:10
Great. I’m hoping that you can share some of the activities and highlights that you’ve been working on.
Brandon Hulse – 15:16
Absolutely, one of the primary areas of focus early on was identifying reputable data sources, so we reached out to our legal counsel, our partnership with the Manufacturing Association and other reputable news outlets. So it’s really helped us collect information on a daily basis as things change regularly and we’re able to identify opportunities, field questions, and present that information, both internally and externally.
Steve Brown – 15:48
Can you give us an update on some of the other areas that you’re looking at as well?
Speaker 2 – 15:51
Yes, we look at all areas that ALOM plays in, and we focused on warehousing and storage, transportation, assembly, contract management, and procurement.
Steve Brown – 16:04
I mean, that’s, that’s a very comprehensive list, you know, Brandon, when you think about it, and you kind of cover all of the different areas and topics. But when you think about that list, is there one or is there one area, if you will, in that list that you give more attention to, or that you have more concern or involvement with?
Speaker 2 – 16:22
Yes, I can expand upon a couple warehousing and storage. So we utilized our global network. We have warehousing and storage in each of primary regions, and we’ve utilized our North American warehousing and storage to help with ALOM’s distribution business and our customers to minimize the impact of the tariffs. Another area of focus has been procurement and purchasing. Unfortunately, Jason wasn’t able to join today, but I have touched base with their team, and they’ve been focused on near shoring solutions and ALOM’s implemented those during and after COVID with local suppliers, and we continue to do so.
Steve Brown – 17:04
This is great. I mean, Shireen and Brandon. Thanks to both of you. I know you all are part of the larger team that you mentioned. And if you think about all of this and then you wrap it into what our CEO, Hannah Kain, is doing as well. She’s part of the Edge Team, but in addition to that, she is on the actively involved and on the board of the National Association of Manufacturers, or NAM, as a lot of people know it, she’s been providing numerous articles and podcasts and is active in speaking engagements on these developments around tariffs and the trade wars and supply chain and such. And so when I think about that, when I think about Hannah’s involvement with with Edge and with your team, it really is providing a great service, I think, to our customers and stakeholders during these uncertain times.
Shireen Garrison – 17:51
Thanks, Steve. Let’s jump back into our conversation with Cathy Roberson. From the 3PL perspective, are you seeing that companies are looking to outsource more of their logistics and freight activities, or are lots of people keeping that in house, do you think?
Cathy Roberson – 18:09
I think it’s a mix, and it depends on the sector, I guess, or what is being in house and versus not? I keep going back to the last mile that that’s an area I’ve been working a lot in lately, and there are a lot of re- a lot of shippers, I should say, that’s actually bringing that back in and house, either offering last mile services themselves to their customers, or, like I said earlier, managing it through a platform. So which is usually, you know, those crowd sourced delivery people doing the last mile.
Shireen Garrison – 18:48
I mean, the benefits of keeping it in house, as you can track everything and really manage the whole thing. But of course, the benefit of using somebody from outside is that they’ve got all the tech and the tools and the drivers and all of that kind of stuff that maybe leads to more flexibility.
Cathy Roberson – 19:04
I agree. I think having a 3PL as a partner is important, you know, for that exact reason. You know the flexibility, there’s cost savings. There’s a good bit of cost savings involved with partnering up with a 3PL and plus just the sharing of the knowledge, the data and such.
Shireen Garrison – 19:23
I was listening to a podcast the other day where somebody was talking about, like, one of their, of course, their biggest cost is people and drivers, but also just keeping the equipment up to date. Like, the difference from a sustainability and environmental perspective on a new truck versus one that’s even just a couple of years old is enormous.
Cathy Roberson – 19:41
Exactly and insurance has gone up too. Yeah, so I remember reading something about the insurance cost on these fleets keeps going up as well.
Shireen Garrison – 19:55
EV is the new way to go, but you know that is a whole ‘nother host of challenges as well.
Steve Brown – 20:02
Cathy, I want to jump back in. We’ve, we’ve talked a little bit in in this discussion about what COVID did to, just really every industry. And if you think from a at least, what we see, and I wanted to get your thoughts as well. When we look as we gotten more and more into the healthcare vertical, and you look at, you know, what COVID did was basically retrain people or open a new markets for in home testing. And so we saw a huge uptick in test kit, whether it’s a COVID or other medical type test kits. And as you you think about that space, and just the sheer regulatory requirements that are in that space. We see it on the 3PL side. I wanted to get your thoughts on the freight the transportation side. You know, when I think about some of these healthcare devices, these medical kits, it takes me back to my telecom days, when they first, when we first introduced smartphones, and when smartphones began. And just the sheer volume, transportation and freight management. There was also security issue there, because you just had these very expensive devices that were shipping. Are you seeing any sort of these kinds of trends in the transportation of freight side with the expensive medical devices that are being shipped direct to patient? And as we see more of this kind of space expand, what are your thoughts on some of the trends that you’re seeing there, that we see, I think, on the 3PL side as well.
Cathy Roberson – 21:26
It’s interesting, because back when I first started in working in supply chain with UPS, healthcare was a big interest of UPS, and they were just beginning to get into it. They had made a couple of acquisitions and such. But yet, you’re right. It’s not a cheap industry to play in for obvious reasons, like you said. I mean, you know, a person’s health is is important and such, but you’re seeing more and more 3PLS, and particularly your express providers slash integrators, coming back, or publicly coming back into this space by making a number of investments and acquisitions. UPS continues to make a number of acquisitions in this space. DHL made one just recently, and they also announced they were going to invest something like 2 billion euros, and beefing up their network and their technology in the healthcare, life sciences space, so you have to have security, like you said, you need to have speed to make that delivery. And that’s where you see the FedEx and the UPSs and the DHLs playing a very strong role in this market. And, yeah, I agree the whole direct to consumer. As the baby boomers continue to age, a lot of them are wanting to stay at home as long as possible, if not and so you’re going to have more of that demand for direct to patient needs. And I know I didn’t answer your question.
Steve Brown – 23:06
No, no, that was very good. Because I think, I think you know, to your point, what we’re seeing is, when you think about some of these niche suppliers, and you’re seeing that in those very specific healthcare markets, and because there is, there is expertise in those different, you know, niche areas, if you will. And it just kind of, it breeds that whole acquisition piece that we were talking about, you know, that I agree as more and more people and companies get into this space, because it is expanding exponentially, that’s where we’re going to see a lot of the growth, the acquisitions, the the outsourcing expertise, you know, and it just get, just continues to trend, I think, in that, in that direction.
Cathy Roberson – 23:46
And those that could demonstrate their skill and their knowledge of the space are going to be the winners. Because, um, remember back in the day there were a lot of, you know, it was like every 3PL and their brother had a pharmaceutical logistics service solution. And you know, most of it does move by air, if you have to go cross country or around the world. Well, what was found was the fact that the timing of the handoff of that pharmaceutical package to the air freight people that was taken too long, and so as a result, a number of these pharmaceuticals were spoiling on the tarmac, waiting to take off, so that that lack of understanding, that knowledge and such was missing. But I think today you’re beginning to see more specialized players in this market, more training has been made in this market to be able to carry, you know, make those handoffs in the correct manner, and get them delivered and monitored while in transit.
Shireen Garrison – 24:54
End to end tracking makes a huge difference as well.
Cathy Roberson – 24:57
Exactly.
Shireen Garrison – 24:58
You can see where everything is. Yeah, there’s the whole cold chain kind of part of it as well, which is obviously much more advanced than it used to be.
Cathy Roberson – 25:06
Exactly. I think that’s where you’ve seen an improvement in technology: better tracking.
Steve Brown – 25:12
And I think there’s been a direct correlation to that and the number of regulations that have been put into effect, and that you know really cause, not necessarily cause, but are require, I guess, is the right word that expertise, whether you’re a 3PL, whether you’re in freight management or transportation, to really be on top of a the regulations, the requirements, and as customers, you want to make sure that whether you’re dealing with freight management, transportation or 3PL logistics providers that they do adhere to those requirements and are experts in their areas of that, and I think that’s that’s going to be really key in my mind going forward, because your point as new players come in, you just have to ensure that that expertise is there.
Cathy Roberson – 25:59
Yeah, the healthcare, life sciences market is certainly not the space where the lowest cost, lowest price carrier is going to win the contract. You want somebody that’s knowledgeable, skilled and can demonstrate all of that.
Shireen Garrison – 26:16
Cathy, I know that you are a consultant and a researcher, but you’re also a history buff, I understand, and you like to read a lot of books, because I know you used to be a librarian as well. So you’ve got a whole host of skills that kind of help you to look at what the trends are. Anything that you think is like an upcoming trend in the logistics space, or curve balls that might be coming just based on what you’ve been researching.
Cathy Roberson – 26:43
I think today’s environment, we need to tread carefully. At the same time as a shipper or carrier, we shouldn’t stop what we’re doing. We shouldn’t go into any type of knee jerk reactions, I guess what I’m saying, because there’s a lot of similarities to what’s going on today as what happened back in the 1800s back in the 1800s this country, the government earned most of its revenue through tariffs, and we’re talking about 50, 80% tariffs, if not even higher than that. And I think going through like with the various depressions that we saw during the 1800s all the way up to the Great Depression in the 1930s it’s not a track that we really should be on, in my opinion. You know, like I said, I think we should be treading carefully, be mindful of what’s going on as such. I know that’s not a good question, a good answer, but it’s more of a we’ve got to do a wait and see type of what’s going on.
Shireen Garrison – 27:49
Planning or jumping into, yeah, doing planning and just being able to exactly, really think about, you know, try to proactively think about what you need to do, rather than having knee jerk reactions to things is is always good advice. Risk Management upfront is important.
Cathy Roberson – 28:06
Yeah, risk management certainly, I think we’ve seen the benefits of risk management really come to the top of a lot of the C level staff of companies, particularly since the COVID and I know down here, I live in the Atlanta area, we always, particularly on the Gulf and East Coast, there’s always the hurricane threats, and they’re getting more frequent, they’re getting bigger, and they are impacting infrastructure.
Steve Brown – 28:36
Cathy, do you- kind of along those? You know, we’ve, we’ve had this kind of broad discussion day, and we think about all of the trends and things that we’ve seen, that we’ve heard of, that we’ve experienced, that we, you know, predict what may happen. Are there any things or any areas that you look at that maybe don’t get enough attention, or that maybe are under the radar, or that keep you up at night as a freighter transportation management expert, you know.
Cathy Roberson – 29:04
Okay, so let me flip that around a bit here. I think a lot of folks tend to look at their supply chains in a very siloed way, and I think we also need to look at it from a horizontal perspective. So if you’re only looking at ocean freight if you’re an ocean freight analyst, and that’s all you look at from day in to day out, your decisions are going to impact trucking or rail down the road. Supply chains have a ripple effect. So what you as an ocean freight analyst may decide upon is going to impact the rest of the supply chain, on down the chain, let’s just say, all the way to that little box that gets delivered to my front door. So I think folks need to be more mindful and look at it as a whole, as what their decisions end up being.
Shireen Garrison – 29:54
Yeah, agreed. I mean, I think supply chain is an interesting has had an interesting. Kind of bit of visibility since COVID. I mean, I know that people I know didn’t have any idea what I did for a job, they’re like, What supply chain that doesn’t even make any sense. But the minute they couldn’t get their hands on toilet paper, everybody understood what supply chain was about. So I think there’s a lot more visibility in the space, and a lot of smart people that are working in this industry that hopefully are thinking about those risks and their impacts on the rest of the space.
Cathy Roberson – 30:27
I agree. I agree. But you also need to realize the supply chain is not a linear thing. It’s a circle. In fact, it’s not a giant circle. There’s like little circles on top of a big circle, because we forget about the reverse logistics side, as we discussed earlier. And that return can happen at any time within a supply chain, not necessarily just up the last mile. It could happen on the dock. In fact, that a lot of times that happened, particularly during COVID, when Halloween stuff was being delivered in January or February, and the retailers were like, send it back. We can’t afford to keep it because the warehouses were too full at the time. So things like that that we need to be mindful of and to think about. But yes.
Shireen Garrison – 31:18
Cathy, we do have one final question for you. It is not a supply chain related question, are you ready for it?
Cathy Roberson – 31:25
Yeah,
Shireen Garrison – 31:28
we want to know. This is what we ask everybody. What’s the best vacation that you’ve ever taken? Or do you have like, a dream destination that you would really like to go to?
Cathy Roberson – 31:37
I think one of the best vacations my husband and I took was when we went to Scotland for a week, we had no itinerary. That’s how we’d take our vacations. We never plan anything. The only thing we plan is a car to rent a car. And the minute we landed in England, we hopped in the car and we headed north. And to me that it was so fun. Just be like, oh, look at that, son. Let’s go check that out. So we enjoy that. And Scotland was so beautiful, such friendly, friendly folks.
Shireen Garrison – 32:11
I would I would agree. I’ve been there as well. It’s beautiful. Well, we’ll have to talk to Hannah about opening an office there.
Cathy Roberson – 32:20
Well, if you’re hiring for it, let me know.
Shireen Garrison – 32:24
We’ll keep this circle informed in terms of what’s happening. That’ll have to be the last word, because we’re out of time. But thank you so much, Cathy, you’re our expert on everything logistics. We really appreciate you being our guest today on smart supply chain. And thanks everybody from one half of the Garrison sisters, plus my my brother from another mother, Steve Brown, thanks so much for being with me here today, and we’ll catch you next time on Smart Supply Chain, or check us out anytime at alom.com.
